Yale Psychiatry Grand Rounds: "My Journey as an AHC Psychologist: Leadership Lessons Learned"

February 16, 2024

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February 16 (Virtual): Karasu Leadership Lecture

"My Journey as an AHC Psychologist: Leadership Lessons Learned"

Speaker: Nadine J. Kaslow, PhD, ABPP, Professor, Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, Emory University School of Medicine

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00:00Honor to see. It's an honor to see
00:03former colleagues and friends as well
00:05as I see the first resident or the
00:07person who was the first resident
00:09that I ever supervised on the call.
00:12So it's really a real honor to be here.
00:16And Doctor Karasu,
00:17I'm so grateful that you're here
00:20today and thank you so very much.
00:22So I'm not going to give the
00:25typical grand rounds today.
00:27What I'm going to do is talk a
00:29little bit about my career as it
00:31influenced who I am as a leader.
00:35And so I'm going to give a much
00:37more sort of personal story today
00:40than the grand rounds with data and
00:42slide data and things like that.
00:45I know that Donna shared,
00:47you know, parts of my CV with you,
00:49and that's usually what we know about people.
00:52But I've come to appreciate as a leader
00:55that we are way more than how many
00:58publications we have or books we've
01:00written or how much grant money we have.
01:02But it's sort of who we are as people.
01:04And so I've really come to think
01:06as a leader that what we want to
01:08know about people is who they are,
01:10both inside of work and outside of work.
01:13What are the things that matter to you?
01:15Who are your mentors?
01:17For me, for example,
01:18Congressman Lewis,
01:19Who are the people that matter?
01:22You know what matters like traveling
01:24and and things like that.
01:25And so here's really the CV that
01:27I want to share with you today,
01:30or part of it as I speak with you today
01:34about my leadership journey or parts of it.
01:37I hope that you take some time
01:39now and over the next few days to
01:41reflect on your own personal and
01:43professional history as leaders,
01:45both the successes you've had
01:47and the challenges you've had,
01:49because a lot of the lessons I've learned
01:51have been through the challenges I've had,
01:53not the successes.
01:56What is your what are your
01:58own values about leadership?
01:59And what's your approach to leadership?
02:02We heard about President Salivate today
02:06and what he shared with all of you.
02:09And I think that says so much
02:11about Peter's values,
02:12about leadership and his approach to
02:15leadership I think is captured in the
02:19communication you will receive today.
02:21So I think that the truth is my story
02:25as a leader begins early in my life.
02:28In the 60s when my mom got her PhD and
02:32that's picture of her PhD graduation,
02:35there were not very many women in psychology.
02:39And so I think that just growing up in
02:42a family with a with a mom who was a
02:46psychologist leader had a big impact on me.
02:49And I learned so much from that.
02:53And here's us at my APA
02:56presidential convention where we
02:58did an interview together.
03:02And there were many advantages of having
03:04a parent in the same field, but they're
03:07also challenges with that as well.
03:09And so really part of what I
03:12learned through that is a lot
03:14about developing my own identity,
03:16ensuring that we each have
03:17our own separate identities,
03:19but can also work together in
03:22meaningful and collaborative ways.
03:25Just moving quickly through the
03:26earlier part of my career at
03:28the University of Pennsylvania,
03:30where I was in undergrad,
03:32I learned a lot there with Marty Seligman
03:35and Lynn Abramson and Lauren Alloy.
03:38I really learned how to think
03:40like a researcher.
03:41I learned about publishing and I
03:45learned that despite the hardships
03:46or the difficulties we may have in
03:48our careers that we can succeed.
03:50I had quite low GRE scores and
03:54mentor support really helped me
03:56be able to move on in in my life.
03:59I learned about offering mentees the
04:01opportunity to study what interests
04:03them and a tremendous amount
04:06about balancing different views.
04:07I was in a cognitive, behavioral,
04:09very research oriented lab.
04:11My mom was a family systems
04:14person and I was in psychotherapy,
04:15psychoanalysis,
04:16and so had multiple different
04:19perspectives that I was trying
04:21to figure out how to balance and
04:25ultimately choose to integrate.
04:27I went to Graduate School to the 1st
04:29at the University of Pittsburgh and
04:31then I transferred to the University
04:33of Houston with my advisor Lynn Ream.
04:35I learned a lot about choosing
04:37an advisor or mentor,
04:38somebody who is really going
04:40to put your career first about
04:42dealing with problematic peers,
04:44which ultimately I think teaches you
04:45a lot as a leader about dealing with
04:48challenging people in the work environment,
04:50handling accusations.
04:51I was accused of cheating
04:54on a statistics exam.
04:56You know, I can look back on it now and say,
04:57well, I didn't do that.
04:58It wasn't a big deal.
04:59But at the time it felt like it
05:01was going to be the end of my
05:03career before it even started.
05:04And we all have stories like that
05:06where things just feel like they're
05:08going to be career ending and
05:10balancing personal and professional
05:13decisions in terms of staying or
05:15moving in relationships and career.
05:17Again, something all of us struggle with.
05:22I was had the good fortune as a grad
05:24student to do a lot of different research,
05:26a lot of different clinical work.
05:30This really set me up well for
05:32being a generalist and also for
05:35doing intervention research.
05:37I learned again a lot about
05:40defining my own identity.
05:42Lynn Ream was a wonderful mentor,
05:43but our world views about
05:45psychology were quite different,
05:47and so I really had a struggle to to find
05:51my own voice and pick my own career path.
05:55The truth was, my faculty wanted me to
05:57get a job in the psychology department.
05:59They were not happy.
06:00I chose to go into the psychiatry department.
06:03I think honestly,
06:04the only thing that saved me was the name
06:06of the psychiatry department was Yale,
06:07and I think if it had been any other name,
06:10it really would have been unacceptable.
06:12But because it was Yale,
06:14it was a good thing.
06:16I also learned about keeping ballet separate
06:18and sort of not bringing parts of me
06:21that weren't professional into the workplace.
06:24That's changed over the years,
06:26and I've learned a lot about
06:29how to be a good mentor.
06:32Fortunate to do my internship and
06:34postdoctoral residency in Madison,
06:36WI had wonderful
06:38interprofessional colleagues,
06:39and it really confirmed my identity
06:42as as a clinical researcher
06:44as well as a clinician.
06:46Also got to do a lot of research there,
06:49a lot of clinical work,
06:52but I learned a lot while I was there.
06:55I learned about dealing with death.
06:57Unfortunately,
06:58I had a peer who was the chief
07:02resident who was murdered by a patient.
07:05I was there.
07:09Excuse me, Heard the gunshots,
07:11heard her scream.
07:12I've been shot.
07:14I called the code.
07:16And so I learned a lot about that.
07:19And I also had a patient I was
07:22extremely attached to during that time,
07:23die by suicide.
07:25And that ultimately shifted my
07:28career trajectory to focus most of
07:30my research on suicide and women.
07:34And so I think I really learned
07:36from all of this the importance
07:38of taking from those experiences,
07:40even some of the most painful ones,
07:43and turning them into things
07:46that can matter going forward.
07:49I think when I do debriefing that I
07:51often do the kind of debriefing that
07:53I wish people had done with us when I
07:56was struggling with issues like that.
08:00My first job, as was mentioned by Donna,
08:03was at Yale, and I worked 1st at the
08:08Connecticut Mental Health Center and
08:10then at the Yale Psychiatric Institute,
08:14did research there.
08:14But the truth is I can.
08:16I struggle to be productive there.
08:19I struggle to get grants.
08:21While I was at Yale, I also taught
08:24and supervised for the first time.
08:27And as was true for so many of us back then,
08:30I had had no classes or seminars
08:32or supervision of supervision.
08:34I was a postdoc on June 30th,
08:37and I had 12 supervisors on July 1st.
08:39And I sort of supervised by
08:43doing what Trying to emulate my
08:45good supervisors and teachers,
08:46and trying to not do the things that the
08:49ones I didn't think were so helpful did.
08:53And it was also my first
08:56administrative experience.
09:00The reality is I made a
09:01lot of mistakes early on,
09:03doing administration and leadership,
09:06mistakes that in retrospect
09:09weren't that big a deal,
09:10but they felt like a big deal.
09:12And part of it was because I didn't
09:14know exactly how to navigate things
09:18when I when I made those
09:21administrative errors.
09:23So a couple of things I failed to negotiate,
09:25never even dawned on me when I
09:27was offered the position that
09:29I could negotiate for anything.
09:31So I failed to negotiate.
09:32And that's actually been a
09:34theme throughout my life,
09:35is not negotiating as well as I could.
09:38I think that's why I teach about negotiation.
09:42I also learned about making
09:44administrative errors and again
09:45realizing the importance of having
09:47a consultant or a coach when
09:49you're starting to be a leader.
09:51And there are many of you on
09:52the call who know David Snow.
09:53He was certainly a person that
09:55I turned to during that time.
09:58I learned about building teams
10:00and quite frankly,
10:02I learned about handling
10:04confrontation and shame.
10:09I also learned about prioritizing,
10:11mentoring, and career development,
10:12even when at the time it felt
10:14like that was not so mentoring and
10:16career development of other people,
10:18even though at the time that didn't
10:19feel like it was really highly valued.
10:21I know that that's changed
10:23a lot over the years,
10:25and I learned that stories about
10:28us change over time.
10:30I learned this when I came back to
10:32to give grand rounds at Yale and I
10:36was introduced and the story that
10:38was told about my time at Yale was so
10:41different than the story I had ever
10:44told myself about my time at Yale.
10:46And I called out my best friend that
10:48night after the grand rounds and I said,
10:50you won't believe what they said
10:51in the grand rounds introduction.
10:52And Stephanie,
10:53I actually think you're the
10:54person who gave the introduction
10:58and she said, well, what did they say?
11:01And I told her and I said,
11:02but it's not true. And she said, well,
11:04maybe you ought to start believing
11:07their story instead of your story.
11:09And I think that it's so often we focus
11:11so much on the things that were harder
11:14that were challenging that we lose sight
11:16of the things that might have gone well.
11:21I've been at Emory since 1990.
11:24I've had a really wonderful
11:27time in many ways.
11:28I could get to to do lots
11:30of different things.
11:31I get to to do clinical work at
11:34both Grady Health System which
11:36is a public safety net hospital
11:39as well as memory healthcare.
11:41So I do very different kinds of work
11:45got get to do a lot of science and
11:48scholarship in in many different
11:52areas and I really love doing that.
11:54Probably the work I'm most passionate
11:56about is the work with the NIA project,
11:59which has been to celebrated
12:01its 30th year last year.
12:06I've really enjoyed moving much more
12:08into patient and family centered
12:10care and doing that collaboratively
12:13with interprofessional colleagues
12:15and I had really wanted to do global
12:17mental health work and had struggled
12:19to figure out how to do that.
12:21Unfortunately, in the past few
12:23years I've been able to increasingly
12:26figure out how to do that work.
12:29The pandemic actually opened up a
12:31lot of doors for me and I'm now,
12:34for example, consulting to our
12:36healthcare colleagues in Wuhan
12:38and Beijing and Shanghai related
12:42to healthcare worker well-being.
12:44Also been able to do a lot of
12:48education and training and I really,
12:51really enjoy that very much and doing
12:55a lot of advocacy and leadership.
12:59We have the Atlanta Behavioral Health
13:01Advocates that we have formed.
13:03It's a social justice advocacy
13:05group and I have multiple sort of
13:08more formal title roles in which
13:11I can do advocacy and leadership.
13:16I've learned a lot over the time.
13:17My professional identity has really evolved.
13:21I started out sort of identifying
13:24as a scientist practitioner,
13:26added educator to that,
13:28added advocate to the my identity,
13:31and then added leader and sort of finding
13:34ways to balance all of those different
13:38parts really have become clear that
13:41I've needed to articulate my values,
13:44knowing what are the values that
13:46for me as a leader are really
13:49central to my core and my identity.
13:52That they really serve as a
13:54foundation and my moral compass.
13:57That these values inform what I do,
13:59they evolve over time.
14:01And that one of the hardest things
14:03for me as a leader has been to
14:05figure out what to do when the
14:08values that I hold near and dear
14:10to my heart come into conflict.
14:12So for example,
14:13I had situations in which values
14:15such as loyalty and integrity
14:17have come into conflict,
14:19both of which are important to me.
14:21Sometimes they can't be equally
14:25important and thinking really about
14:28how to act in accord with my values.
14:31So things like valuing the people
14:33with my work with collaborating and
14:35teach as well as those I care for.
14:38Really incorporating community
14:40advisory boards and the the voices
14:43of our patients and their families.
14:46Building programs through collaboration,
14:48creating service and educational programs
14:50that value and highlight diversity,
14:53equity and inclusion.
14:54And being sure that I prioritize
14:57in all of my work service,
14:59serving the public or the multiple publics.
15:03And here's sort of a different
15:05way to to highlight what some of
15:08those values are associated with
15:10each part of my identity and the
15:13importance of pulling those together.
15:17I've learned about balancing
15:19multiple missions.
15:20Probably most everyone on the call
15:23does 234 or more kind of activities,
15:26and you can't do them all
15:28equally well all of the time.
15:30And how do you prioritize
15:31and which do you do?
15:32When and how do you make sure
15:35that you do a good enough job
15:37with everything that you do?
15:39Through my various leadership roles at Emory,
15:42I've had amazing opportunities.
15:44One of the most special opportunities
15:47was that His Holiness the Dalai Lama
15:49joined the faculty at Emory and I was
15:52chair of the University Senate at the time.
15:56And so I had the opportunity to
15:59to welcome him to our faculty.
16:02And what I would say,
16:03there's a lot I could say
16:04about that experience.
16:05But one of the things that I would
16:07say from a leader perspective is
16:09that even though I believe 12,000
16:12people were watching this ceremony,
16:16when I was talking with him,
16:18he looked at me in the eyes in
16:20the way in which I felt like I
16:22was the only person in the space.
16:24There were lots and lots of
16:25people in the room that he really,
16:27truly made eye contact with me
16:29in a way that made me feel like
16:33we were really connected.
16:35And I think as a leader,
16:36that is just so very, very important.
16:40I've learned lots of things
16:43along my time at at Emory dealing
16:47with problematic employees.
16:49I tend to be somebody who likes to
16:51avoid conflict and can't always do that.
16:54As I mentioned,
16:55I'm not very good at this negotiating thing,
16:57so I've didn't do as well.
16:59I haven't done as well as I could
17:02negotiating for my salary or time off
17:04when I was APA president and trying to,
17:06as I mentioned,
17:07teach about negotiation to be
17:09able to do this,
17:10practicing giving and getting feedback,
17:12asking others for help,
17:14and of course using data to advocate.
17:17I've come to appreciate what my style
17:20is as a leader as it's evolved and
17:23recognizing the pros and cons of my style.
17:27I've applied for jobs.
17:29Excuse me.
17:30Well,
17:31at Emory
17:35and I did not get all of the shops
17:38that I applied for And so sort of
17:40learning how to deal with that,
17:42especially when you don't get a job
17:44in in your own space and just how
17:46that feels and how to deal with that.
17:49And then I being offered new
17:51opportunities when I least expect them.
17:53So my recent role in the Dean's office
17:57was was a job that was created for
18:00me and offered to me and that was
18:03something that came quite unexpectedly.
18:08I've really come to appreciate
18:11the importance of stepping forward
18:14during times of crisis and I'll
18:16give a couple examples of this.
18:18One is that we created this
18:21model called caring Communities
18:22during the COVID-19 pandemic,
18:24developed a behavioral response model.
18:26We published about this and
18:30and gave a lot of support,
18:32interventions, education, outreach
18:37at our institution and our area
18:40nationally and then increasingly globally.
18:44As I mentioned earlier,
18:45I had wanted to figure out how to
18:48get into the global space and the
18:50pandemic and the work we ended up doing
18:53locally opened the doors for that.
18:55And so I got the US Department of State,
19:00offered me a contract to consult
19:04to embassies throughout the world,
19:06really, but particularly a lot in
19:09the Middle East and in Africa.
19:11And so that's really helped me be able
19:14to get involved with more global health work.
19:19It's another example of stepping
19:20forward during times of crisis.
19:22It's also for me related to diversity
19:25initiatives and facilitating.
19:27This relates to what Doctor Crystal
19:29was talking about beginning today,
19:31diversity dialogues and
19:33anti racism conversations.
19:35We created and implemented A diversity
19:38dialogue facilitator training program.
19:40First, we trained faculty throughout
19:43our Med school to support these or
19:46to facilitate these conversations and
19:49then we refine the program to train
19:54learners like chiatry residents,
19:56psychology interns and postdocs
19:58and and the like and we're able to
20:00get some grant funding to do that.
20:02We're continuing to to grow that
20:06program and there have been other times
20:09of crisis in recent years that I've
20:12found stepping forward really matters.
20:14I've been.
20:15Doing work,
20:16psycho education,
20:17support and guidance to the actually
20:20economic teams in the Ukraine.
20:27So what have I learned from all
20:30this Leading through crisis?
20:31We're really prioritizing my
20:33connection with the people on teams,
20:35recognizing just how much leadership
20:38is about relationships and
20:40connections being really present,
20:42visible and available.
20:43And I don't think any time is more
20:45important for that than the pandemic.
20:48Going to the IC US every day from
20:51March through the Friday after
20:53Thanksgiving and just being there
20:55for for people on the front lines.
20:58Being about a lot about being flexible,
21:01compassionate and coaching
21:03others with compassion.
21:04Taking appropriate action steps in
21:07collaboration with people that I leave,
21:10doing my best to work with people to
21:12get critical resources and something
21:14that I continue to to have to work
21:18on is taking good care of myself.
21:21Also learned the importance and
21:23again this is mentioned earlier in
21:27that conversation by Doctor Crystal
21:30of being engaged in the the Atlanta
21:33community in many different ways
21:35and how very important that is being
21:39available to the media as well as
21:42a spokesperson for psychology,
21:44translating psychology and psychological
21:46science to the public and really
21:50helping the public in times of crisis.
21:53And I just here want to sort of
21:56acknowledge the the loss of Missus
21:59Carter an amazing mental health
22:01advocate and leader.
22:07I know that people who lead
22:09and do well get lots of honors,
22:12but I really don't feel like it's
22:14the honors in and of themselves.
22:16That's what matters.
22:17But what we do with those honors
22:20to continue to pay it forward.
22:24One of the ways I've been
22:26involved in doing that,
22:28but also in learning to lead,
22:30is I've participated in a lot of
22:32different leadership development programs.
22:34I came to realize pretty early on in,
22:36in part because of some of the mistakes
22:38that I made while I was in New Haven
22:41that I really didn't know how to lead.
22:42That leadership was a competency,
22:45but a competency that we don't
22:47necessarily learn the same way we learn
22:50how to do interventions or whatever.
22:52And so I participated in many different
22:56leadership development programs and have
22:58been on the faculty of many different
23:01leadership development programs as well.
23:04And I think that that's really helped me
23:07learn as much as I can about leadership.
23:12So in addition to learning that
23:14leadership is a confidence.
23:16I think her participating in these programs,
23:19all of which include various
23:22leadership assessments,
23:23has really helped me learn what
23:25my leadership strengths are
23:27and how to capitalize on them.
23:30Excuse me, I am not your typical leader
23:32when it comes to those assessments.
23:35So whatever assessment tool you do,
23:37and I'm just gave 2 examples here
23:40on the Berkman, the green has to
23:42do with the feeling kind of leader.
23:44Well, I was in a leadership program.
23:47We all took the Berkman.
23:48They had all the Reds over red
23:51kind of leaders in one corner.
23:53The Blues who another.
23:55The yellows and another and
23:56the greens and the 4th.
23:58And I was the only one in the green category,
24:01the only one who led by feeling
24:04the same on the Myers Briggs.
24:05It doesn't matter what it is and
24:10really not feeling for a long time
24:14that I had a lot of models or
24:16support to to lead in those ways.
24:18But that those that what that is who I
24:20am and how to to capitalize on that.
24:23But also these leadership programs
24:26have you do 360° evaluations,
24:28and we all have areas of strengths
24:32and areas we can get better at,
24:35and developing and implementing
24:37action plans for myself related to
24:40the areas that were ways in which
24:43I needed to improve and being very
24:46intentional about addressing those.
24:49So for example,
24:51I mentioned earlier dealing with
24:53problematic employees being one of them.
24:56Not surprisingly,
24:57I am probably not the only person on
25:00this zoom who's a perfectionist and
25:03really learning about striving for
25:06excellence rather than perfection,
25:08which is of course always unattainable.
25:12As Donna mentioned,
25:13I've been very involved nationally
25:15and lots of different ways and
25:18lots of different organizations.
25:20And through that I've learned about
25:23reaching out for help and guides
25:25from other people who I trust
25:27and can and depend on.
25:29Taking responsibility for my own behaviors,
25:32my own actions,
25:33and being willing to reflect on those.
25:36Always trying to be curious,
25:38valuing learning from diverse
25:40people with different views,
25:42knowing that you can't be a leader
25:43by yourself and you really need
25:45to share that leadership burden,
25:47creating and following through
25:48and vision and mission.
25:50I don't know how many of you have
25:52been involved in strategic planning
25:53where you spend tons and tons and
25:55tons of time coming up with the
25:56vision and the mission and goals and
25:58way less time on implementing those
26:01strategic plans and realizing that
26:02really the effort needs to go on.
26:05The implementation part of those plans
26:11have had many different involvements
26:14in the American Psychological
26:16Association since very early in my
26:18career and found those to be extremely
26:21valuable and very special to me.
26:24Of course, the one that what mattered
26:26the most was the year I was President of
26:30the American Psychological Association.
26:32I had several initiatives at
26:33that time that I think reflect
26:35things that really matter for me.
26:37One had to do with translating
26:40psychological science to the public,
26:41the second had to do with
26:44patient and family centered care,
26:47and the third had to do with the pipeline
26:49from Graduate School to first job.
26:52But this is also the first
26:54time that I didn't.
26:55Besides my initiatives,
26:56I I did what I call my passions,
27:00and I really integrated the arts
27:02and psychology For the first
27:04time in the psychology world.
27:05I had always, as I had mentioned earlier,
27:07kept damp, separate and outside of my life.
27:11And so I had started the first choir at APA.
27:14We had slideshows of psychologists
27:19and psychology trainings,
27:21photography and pottery
27:23and artwork and the like.
27:26I gave presidential citations,
27:271/3 of them to early career
27:29psychologist because I feel like
27:31people early in their career often
27:33get overlooked and their work doesn't
27:36really get honored sufficiently.
27:37And I just loved the international
27:41travel that I got to do.
27:44I think I learned about communicating
27:47in a personal and genuine way.
27:50When I was APA president,
27:52I gave Congressman Lewis a presidential
27:56citation and he was a real mentor to me
28:00in terms of policy and advocacy work.
28:03And when I was starting to introduce him,
28:07I got choked up and I sort of stopped myself,
28:12didn't think it was appropriate to get
28:15tearful when I was introducing somebody.
28:17And he stood up and he said,
28:20Nadine,
28:21it's OK to have those feelings
28:23and share them.
28:25It's those feelings that are
28:27the passion and the power behind
28:30courage and good leadership.
28:32And that was really a turning
28:35point for me as a leader,
28:37to have somebody who I respected
28:40so tremendously much for what he
28:43did for our nation and the world,
28:45and to have him say you don't
28:47have to hold back who you are,
28:50that you can be genuine and that
28:52will make you more effective leader.
28:56I really define my approach when I
28:59began the presidency as striving to
29:01be a leader that's collaborative,
29:03transformational,
29:04inclusive and values driven.
29:07But I had to add, over time,
29:10being courageous,
29:11I had never thought of myself
29:13as courageous in any way,
29:15certainly not a courageous leader.
29:18But it became clear to me that
29:20there are times that we have
29:23to step forward as a leader,
29:25regardless of the consequences
29:26and and really have courage in
29:29moving things forward.
29:33I learned as APA president about
29:35winning some and losing some,
29:37and that's true for any leader in any role.
29:40Times of feeling rejected as a leader
29:44and figuring out kind of what I can
29:47learn from that, what I can take.
29:49That really led me to reflect on my
29:51own approach to leadership and to
29:53write about being a multicultural
29:56and feminist leader as as things
29:59that really guide or inform who I am
30:05as APA president.
30:06I learned about dealing with those
30:08interpersonal conflicts which I'd
30:10like to avoid at the highest level,
30:12having to have intense personal
30:15and professional demands.
30:17Managing change.
30:18I always get marked really high on sort of
30:21collaboration and finding a middle ground.
30:24But sometimes compromise just isn't possible,
30:28and sometimes creative
30:29alternatives need to be found.
30:31And really figuring out what to do
30:35when compromised isn't possible.
30:37Continuing to make mistakes but
30:39learn from them and pursuing my
30:41dreams and sharing my passions.
30:46Unfortunately, there were some
30:51accusations about psychologists
30:53potential involvement in torture.
30:55And while I don't want to get
30:57off on on this whole issue,
31:00I want to focus on what I learned
31:02from the Huffman reporter,
31:03the independent review as a leader.
31:05So when I was president,
31:08I was when I president,
31:10the APA board called for an independent
31:13review of these accusations that
31:15had appeared in James Risen's book.
31:17I chaired the special committee
31:20related to this and I Co LED
31:22with Doctor Susan McDaniel the
31:25handling of the decision making.
31:27This was the headlines of the New
31:31York Times at the when the report
31:34was actively leaked to the press.
31:40And so as you can imagine, this was a
31:43very difficult and painful time for the
31:46organization and for me in in my role.
31:49And it was a time where more than ever,
31:52I really came to understand how you
31:54have to lead with, as I mentioned,
31:57courage and integrity to follow
31:59your moral compass, being clear,
32:02to have those values front and center.
32:05Because sometimes as a leader, there's
32:07some really painful realities to face.
32:10And that we need to do that no
32:12matter how difficult that is.
32:14And of course,
32:16making those really tough decisions.
32:19When you're leading through
32:20a crisis like that,
32:21it's very stressful and there's a
32:23lot of emotions that come up and
32:25trying to figure out how you're
32:27going to navigate those both
32:29personally and professionally.
32:31Finding ways to manage that stress.
32:33When there really is no time for self-care.
32:37And yet the critical importance
32:40of making time for self-care.
32:43Speaking up when what you have
32:44to say is a very popular,
32:47especially for me at least when issues
32:50of integrity and ethics are core.
32:52And knowing that when you're a leader,
32:55you may end up having a legacy that
32:58wasn't what you chose your legacy to be,
33:01wasn't what you thought you would
33:02legacy was going to be.
33:04But you ended up having a legacy that that
33:09that really is how people identify
33:11you in many ways, even though
33:14that may be only a small part of
33:16what you've done in your life.
33:20This was at a open town hall meeting
33:23with Susan McDaniel and and really
33:26working together with her DM and
33:28others on the leadership team.
33:30Creating a safe, trusting,
33:32honest, and open culture.
33:35Capitalizing on each other's strengths,
33:38really seeking and getting different
33:40perspectives and integrating those.
33:42Celebrating successes and knowing that
33:45when you're leading through a crisis that
33:48there are always more challenges ahead.
33:53And so this was the next New York
33:56Times headline related to this.
34:01Learned about using principles
34:03of good communication.
34:05When you're feeling,
34:06particularly in a crisis time,
34:08that you're going to get attacked
34:10from all sides and you're
34:11going to have to handle that.
34:12And it's some of those attacks
34:14are based on mistakes I've made
34:16and having to take responsibility
34:18for that or organizational or
34:20institutional responsibility.
34:25This is probably going to be the quote
34:29of mine that I will be best known for.
34:32And again, even though I consider this
34:35only one piece of my my life's work,
34:38but this is the quote in the New York Times.
34:40The actions, policies and lack of
34:43independence from government influence
34:44described in the Huffman report
34:46represented a failure to live up
34:48to our core values, Nadine Kasler,
34:51former president of the organization,
34:53said in a statement.
34:55We profoundly regret and apologize for the
34:58behavior and the consequences that ensued.
35:03I saw Congressman Lewis in the Atlanta
35:07airport about a month or two after
35:10this apology in the New York Times.
35:12And he said to me, Nadine,
35:14do you know how often people apologize?
35:16In the New York Times,
35:18I said I had no idea.
35:19And he said, well, almost never.
35:23It takes courage as a leader to apologize.
35:26And so I think that all of us wish
35:30that our leaders would apologize more.
35:35But when you're leading through
35:36really turbulent times,
35:37you have to find ways to be compassionate,
35:40caring and pathic, as well as
35:42courageous and ethical and decisive.
35:45It helps so much to collaborate
35:48during those times,
35:49to find a way to deal with the trauma
35:51and the turbulence of the difficulty,
35:54as well as to move forward,
35:56to embrace the opportunities
35:58that a crisis provides for.
36:01A department and institution and
36:04organization using those crisis
36:06opportunities has a chance to
36:09become stronger and better and
36:11to thrive in new kinds of ways.
36:14And I think that can only happen
36:17in a culture in which there's a
36:19lot of emphasis on self reflection,
36:22ethicality,
36:22having every voice at the table and
36:25being open to diverse perspectives,
36:28finding humming ground,
36:30creating solutions together
36:32and trying new ways to be
36:40so shifting from that to something
36:43that I'm much more passionate about.
36:46Mentioned I I started dancing
36:47ballet when I was three.
36:49I danced ballet professionally prior to
36:52going to pursue a career in psychology.
36:56But I had always kept that really separate.
37:00And I think as a leader,
37:01so often people keep separate
37:03different parts of their lives.
37:06As Donna mentioned,
37:07I'm a psychologist for the Atlanta Ballet.
37:10I had AI met with the kids last week and
37:13one of the kids said at the end, well,
37:15why do we we call you Doctor Nadine?
37:18I said, well,
37:19what what would you like to call me?
37:20And they call their teachers like Miss This.
37:22And I thought she was going
37:23to say Miss Nadine.
37:25And instead she said, well,
37:26CNN calls you doctor, dancer.
37:29And so this is probably my favorite
37:31thing that's ever been shared about me.
37:33And it's a lovely article interviews
37:35CNN did about dance and psychology and
37:38the integration of the two of them
37:43as a dance psychologist.
37:44Until this past year and a half,
37:47everything I did was in the dance world.
37:49Nothing was in the psychology world.
37:52So I did have done lots of keynote
37:54addresses for the National
37:55Association of Schools of Dance,
37:57consulted to the various dance
38:00companies and schools commented
38:02for these dance magazines.
38:04But just this past year,
38:06I for the first time got a grant with
38:09the dance department at Emory to
38:11create a restorative movement program
38:16and sort of foster trauma healing and
38:19restorative justice in our patients in
38:21the NIA project with histories of trauma.
38:24So I'm really excited to finally,
38:27at this stage of my life, in my career,
38:30to bring dance into into our medical school.
38:36This is a picture of me in a split on
38:39the board table at APA that is probably
38:43truly the integration of my passions.
38:45I don't normally do that in the workplace.
38:47People sort of dared me to do it,
38:51but really the importance of my continuing
38:53to to take ballet, to teach ballet,
38:56to to acknowledge and try to find
38:58ways to integrate those passions,
39:01but to also appreciate work, life, synergy.
39:07So in a few minutes, we have left.
39:11I want to share a little bit
39:13about why I love leadership.
39:16Because I am, I've come to realize,
39:18a leadership junkie.
39:21I really like having missions and
39:24dreams that I want to accomplish
39:26in collaboration with other people.
39:30I like connecting with people with
39:33shared interests and commitments and
39:36engaging with other people in ways that
39:38strengthen the meaning in our lives.
39:40I think having things that matter
39:43that are meaningful to us is is part
39:45of our our well-being and part of
39:49what helps us advance things and
39:52really engage in wonderful ways.
39:54Leadership has really enabled me
39:56to expand my horizons and give
39:59back to the community,
40:00our communities in multiple different ways.
40:05I do like most of the times
40:06the challenges of leadership.
40:08Sometimes those challenges
40:09seem a bit overwhelming,
40:10but in general I enjoy the
40:13challenges of leadership and helping
40:16others be more successful.
40:18At this stage of my life and my career,
40:21I have really become more intentional
40:24and committed to mentoring
40:26future generations of leaders.
40:28Because I think we really need to
40:31build leadership pipelines and be
40:33very committed to building diverse
40:35leadership pipelines and doing this
40:37by inspiring other people and being
40:40bringing out the best of them.
40:43I also think as a leader we can really
40:46make a difference in the world for
40:49me in recent years through COVID-19,
40:51healthcare worker,
40:53well-being and anti racism movements.
40:59So when I reflect upon where I
41:01am and where I'm going, I can,
41:04I'm sort of always questioning and we are
41:06going to keep staying on the path I'm on.
41:09Am I going to pursue more alternative
41:12paths in psychology and medicine,
41:15or am I going to pursue path
41:18outside of psychology and medicine?
41:23And so that means, as always,
41:25sort of taking stock of my life,
41:28like who I am as a leader,
41:31What matters to me,
41:32my strengths, my challenges.
41:34Seeking counsel for people from
41:37people who I trust and who matter
41:40to me and is always trying out new
41:45opportunities because there's so many
41:48exciting and different things to
41:50continue to do and ways to give back.
41:54So I'm going to stop here and thank
41:56you for your attention and I am
41:59happy to take questions or comments.